Constructive Criticism and Opinion Thread.

[SRob4192]

I don't know if you've noticed or not, but people are losing interest in TSG. Both viewers per stream and donations (outside of Indiethon, with most donations generated by game bundles) are decreasing. The Sonic Marathon only raised $4,000 and the native donations for this Mario Marathon are unimpressive too. The donation total (18,000 at the time of this writing) are respectable enough, but 9,000 of this is revenue from a prior monthlong event. Another 5,000 was from one donor alone.

So, with that said, what's the problem? Note- these are just my opinion. Others probably feel differently. Let's have a discussion.

-> Streams in between marathons.


I've been a TSG fan since 2009. I'm making this post on an anonymous account so people don't get mad at me in chat or whatever. But, anyway, streams in between marathons are killing donation interest. TSG marathons used to be huge events. But, with TSG hosting regular streams or "minithons" very often, the novelty of the big marathons just isn't there. The novelty drives viewership, which in turn drives donations.

After reading some dialogue in the thread, I've come to the conclusion that this is a rather stupid point, and is obviously just a personal feeling and not something that affects donations. We should be PROMOTING the community.

-> Disinterested streamers


Many times, the only person who is actually watching the game being played is the one playing the game. Other people on the streaming camera are generally on their phones or otherwise distracted. There was even someone sleeping on camera this year. It also seems like everybody is leaving more this year than they have in the past. It used to be that- generally- everyone would stick around for the entire time, leaving just to get food or sleep. Now, most of the TSG personalities are MIA 90% of the time when not commentating.

-> Lack of Energy


This kind of goes hand in hand with the previous point.Interaction between non commentating members is minimal. TSG streams used to feel like a big party. Now, it's mostly dull and mundane most of the time.

-> No More Cool Donation Incentives

Donation incentives in recent TSG marathons has boiled down to "Hit someone with X Object" or "Eat X weird-and-a-little-gross-but-not-too-bad Food." It seems like after the Baltes "Ghost Pepper Incident", donation incentives have been toned way down. This decreases interest. I remember a $10 donation (of which I have made plenty over the years) used to get you custom artwork, or a spot on the TSG tree. Now it gets you a chance to watch someone eat baby food.

I still love TSG, and love what you guys do. But, unless some of these trends are reversed, people might totally lose interest in TSG sooner rather than later. This post is meant to help and not to criticize.

[Ammy175]

NGL, I agree with this post 100%. I haven't even tuned into the Mario marathon yet, and the last one that I watched (Sonic, I think?) just felt a bit... bland, I guess. Like, yeah, there were some good moments for sure, but I felt like there were things about it that made it feel not as... special, or good, or whatever, as previous marathons, and this post does a good job at summing it up.

Although, granted, I never actually watched a minithon, so I guess I can't technically speak for that part, but I feel that if the quality of the minithons (or, rather, streams in general) were better, then I could see myself watching the minithons, and having the main marathons feel not as special (or at least causing donation totals for an actual marathon to not be as high as they would be, with people donating to the minithon instead).

And on an unrelated note, holy crap, a $5,000 donation! Props to whoever did that.

[NicoCW]

If you ask me, I think the reason the viewerbase is so low now is because TSG used to be one of the only groups that did video game marathons. This was back before Twitch existed, so it was something new. TSG's EarthBound marathon in 2008 was during the period of time where EarthBound fans were desperately trying to get Mother 3 translated, and that marathon was part of that effort, which attracted many people.

Now that Twitch is huge, anybody can tune into someone streaming games with commentary. it's something that's everywhere, so that's why marathon hype has been lower.

Then there's AGDQ, which is the highest level play imaginable. Since speedrunning became big a thing after TSG's heyday, people are expecting top level play from a group called TheSpeedGamers, despite the fact that the name came from simply completing a series in one weekend, not beating them as fast possible. Playing games for charity is extremely common now.

Overall, I think the times changing has more to do with why people are losing interest.

In terms of how marathons are being handled, I will agree with the donation incentives being dull. None of the food comes anywhere near what TSG used to consume (though this may be due to the lack of Baltes commentary) in terms of grossness, and silly string is hardly a prank.

The only other thing I can add are the players being, let's be completely honest, really bad at the games. I'm not expecting AGDQ level quality, but racing against the schedule added a lot more hype to past marathons. Now, it doesn't look like anyone practices the games anymore (which I can understand due to tight schedules), generating no more hype when it comes to games being streamed. Also, nobody wants to watch a blind run. It's basically just someone running around in a game and getting nothing done.

I still love TSG. I met so many great people here and had great times. It was basically the first place on the internet where I socialized with people. Just remember, if I'm ever pointing out things I don't like, it's because I only want it to improve and be the best it can be.

[DJGamer]

Yeah I think things like the GDQs and ESA have spoiled people. Like just a bit ago someone asked if these are speedruns or let's plays and left when britt told them that they were basically let's plays.

Edit: Maybe people not watching TSG is indicative of a bigger problem, namely that people don't want to watch "casual scrubs" "let's play" a game. Which is a shame, really.

[SRob4192]

That Mario and Luigi civil war was EPIC. More stuff like that please!!

[Wiilink1000]

The email I sent:
This is Wiilink1000, a community member and active watcher for 5 years. Let me be blunt: TSG is dying and is close to dead. I can pinpoint this to one reason. There is NO energy, no uniqueness, nothing that makes you stand out other than a history. You used to get well over a 2k views without being front paged. People have left. You lack skill in the games you play when there are other events similar to yours that are more community orientated, more hyped, and more unique. Remember when people practiced there games? Remember when there was an element of Speed in The Game? I do, and what do we have? Commentators with flat mouths that do nothing but spout random un-achievable incentives. Over the course of 5 days, we have raised $23k, not even half of what we used to make. Nowadays when I watch TSG I see a group of people uninterested in what they are doing. Commentators can't even see the game! So few people are in the room and yet the venue is "Close to full." As I'm watching the donation incentive is "For $20 I will stop fanning myself." What the fuck? That's not an incentive, he'll stop when his arm gets tired anyway. A chat member told them to stop and they stopped. No donation, nothing. Mario Vs. Luigi made over $1000, where are the brilliant ideas like that? The Zelda tourney from years ago raised over $5000. The most effective thing I saw was getting people to sing to StonePaw. People who don't commentate well, play well and are just there for the sake of being there need to be out. There are tons of people much more qualified than people that show up. Please TSG, I love you and want to see you do well. But just being a charity stream isn't good enough anymore.

[SRob4192]

I think the changing streaming landscape is absolutely a factor in TSG's viewership/decline. But there's really nothing that can be done about that. I don't really think bringing in a bunch of professional speedrunners to replace everyone is the answer either. People watch TSG for the personalities as much- or possibly even more- as they do for the games themselves.

The Mario vs. Luigi civil war last night was awesome. It is events like that that make TSG great. That event, in a pretty non-primetime slot for a lot of the US, raised about $1500. The game itself was Phil's Haunted Mario 64 Run, which was a bunch of fun too. This is the closest that I've seen them get to the old days. It was Britt and Rob commentating, both of who are excellent, so that's a factor. Both were really energetic throughout the entire thing, and even the people playing the game were involved in the Civil War. It was a great, communal experience.

Britt previously mentioned that this marathon, outside of Indiethon, was the most planned event in TSG's history. I feel like a lot of that was with St. Jude for the donations themselves and the setup, etc. I think more planning into the actual incentives themselves- so we can get more events like this Civil War- would go a long way. I do think that, as Wiilink1000 points out, it's annoying that the commentators can't even see the game. The commentators' personalities mixing with gameplay commentary is best. This is what makes other similar events successful. I also agree that more game practicing is a must. I don't expect 100%, World Record runs or anything, but at least a familiarity with the game is better than these blind runs that seemingly make up every game. I forget who it was, but a couple of years ago one of the TSG members did come close to a WR run for Wind Waker during one of the Zeldathons. That was really fun. As previously mentioned in the thread, playing against the pressure of a schedule is fun too. Simply quitting games you don't finish because of time constraints is weak.

I also think that the scheduling could be improved. I'm sure there's a reason why we've seen less of key TSG members in recent marathons, but it's still a factor that plays into enjoyment.

Bottom line, I still love TSG. I still will always support TSG. None of this is meant to come off as harsh, if it does.

[Summer]

Another thing may be that the Mario marathon was planned in July, when multiple big charity Twitch events (ESA, SGDQ) are going on. It's possible that people aren't donating at the moment because they're waiting to do so during SGDQ. Apart from that I agree with most of what's been said already... I do think the streamers are still interested and trying to do their best, it just isn't as simple as it was years ago with all the extra competition and increased expectations from the Twitch audience. Just my thought, wanted to give my two cents.

By the way, I love the regular streams and minithons and personally don't think they are a detriment to TSG.

[Baltes]

we've doubled our totals from Star Wars and we're on track to break 30k

[localretard]

I'll say it. Personally I think you guys are right. These are all things that I remember being brought up before internally. I can't speak as to why we did or didn't do anything as it's been awhile and my memory isn't very good, but I will say I agree that some changes do seem to be necessary. I hope to see some productive debates here in the future to help both progress TSG's presence within twitch and increase its' donation raising potential.